[SmG Tello]

The world has many kinds of people, cultures and religions, there will always be somebody with a different point of view than you, it's in those times when you can actually try to understand why aren't all people the same, why can't we just solve a conflict in matter of seconds... we live different, we think different. All debates are between people who think different... what i think about debates is that you can't actually WIN it, you won't change your way of thinking just because of that, why would the people you are debating against?
All these discussions aren't meant with the end of just having one side, you just say what you think and live your life, YOUR life.. it's yours, no goverment or anything should have the choice to do with your life as they please (just talking about things like personality etc) as it is your life.. just live it and don't f*ck with other peoples lifes, they're not yours.
(kinda redundnat buut I can't be any more creative, its 4 am and this hing is running our of power lol)

[SmG PDrilla]

^ Well some things people shouldn't even do, even if they can handle their own lives. For example, abortion...

[Beasty]

And why is that drilla?

[SmG Battlefire]

Abortion is not a morally wrong. Nor is it morally right.

What I think is that if a mother does not want it's child. If been raped, sex or whatever. It should at least give birth and give it to someone who wishes to have a child but can't.

But if a health problem reason that the baby must die before death or the mother will die. Than it's ok because it's a life-death situation.

I just don't believe death should be judged by humans because when we are alive we don't know how death feels. We see it but we don't feel it. We don't know how it's like to be dead.

[Beasty]

There are plenty of kids in orphanages and the like who are overlooked because people want to adopt babies. Its sickening to think that we intend to create more problems knowing full well that others could be taken care of first just as easily- no, even easier.

If its about the rights of those who can't have kids- then im sorry, but they have no rights to that. They don't have to squeeze a baby through their vagina, they don't have to spend 9 months pregnant. Forcing others to suffer through pain because you want the end result is selfish. They put no effort into creating the child. To boot, we dont force every person capable of speaking to speak all the time because mute people can't. We don't force those woth legs to walk everywhere because those who are paraplegic cannot. If your born mute, legless or infertile- tough shit, thats the luck of the draw.

If it's about the rights of the fetus, forget it. They don't have rights, not yet they don't. They have no personality or identity of their own yet. If they become a hindrance to a real, living person, and that person chooses to get rid of it, then they have every right to. Don't act suprised, life is full of rights of passages gained through age. According to society, your a slave to your makers until you turn 18, you must sucumb to there every demand unless your own life is at stake. Until the day you die, your a slave to society, trapped in a system unescapable until your life no longer exists. Is it really that surprising this disconcern for life reaches before its conception?

In any case, the whole "forced life to avoid a possibly worse death" idea is a crock of it to. For all we know, death could be BETTER than life. Hell, you say yourself dont you? You believe in religion.

Regardless, until a day comes when we know for a fact which is better, that argument is as much an argument FOR abortion as it is against it.

[SmG Battlefire]

Actually they do have a identity fro the start their in the egg. When it's in the mother. It can actually react to the noises outside. That's why people sometimes talk to the baby even from the inside. It can actually react to it by movement inside.

[Beasty]

Your looking at something conceptual in a metaphysical way. Identiy isn't detirmined based on physical interaction, its based upon the subsequent impact of the iteration.

To add proof to this theory, reflect upon the saying "A tree falls in the middle of the woods, and no one is around to hear it. Does it make a sound?"

Now, to digress a little, in terms of actual science, it does not; sound is the subsequent perception of waves in the air due to vibration- meaning without the perception of those sound waves, they are exactly that. Waves.

In terms of philosophy, it generally follows the same suit. While its true, the tree can fall all it wants, as many as them, as many times. As long as no one is around to hear it, to percieve and materialize a wordly reaction spawned from a prerequisite alteration of some kind, then that impact from that alteration always remains nothing. Sure, the vibrations created sound waves. But if no one ever knew those sound waves had ever existed, there existance would be impossible. You'd be defining physical altercations which stand beyond the conception of the interactive world.

Its nothing less than descring the events of a movie as if they really happened. You, along with no one else, truly perceived any of those transpiring events, however you are reinterating theoretical, not metaphysical, instances and as such, they do not constitute real instances.

To bring this full circle, the fetus may very well hear, and breathe and feel. But without a strong enough reaction to its action from the physical world, its existance only constitues a believable story.

[SmG Battlefire]

Actually I disagree.

It has very little personality because it not out in the world yet. But every living thing has a identity even if it's alive, just got born, or inside the mother.

[Beasty]

So tell me. What is the tree outside's stance on gay marraige? How does the blade of grass on my front lawn feel about obamacare?

If these questions seem silly, its because they are. Just because something lives does NOT constitute consciousness, a mentality, or any other part of a self-aware psyche. We are differentiated between other living things because our interactions create a big enough pull on the interpretable world that alternate perceptions arising from dislocated origins pull back as a result. Newton had a nice way of putting it, that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. It is no difference in this line, either. Significance of existence is determined upon the the opposite reaction. Anything in existence has to create a noticeable enough pull, so that a noticeable enough pull comes in return. Otherwise, as I have explained before, those actions that cannot create a large enough pull back are non-existent.

Again, a fetus with no personality, no name, no interpretable face; its life cannot outweigh the life of something that DOES have that interact-able individuality, no matter how "alive" that fetus is.

[SmG Battlefire]

So your saying if a if it is blind than it still has none you listed?

Fetus has everything you listed it just doesn't understand it. It does not know what it means because it's not out there in the world. Just that small place living there before birth.