[Beasty]

This isnt a personal insult. Dude, I have literally no fucking clue what you just said.


EDIT- Ok, I get what your saying now, and your absolutly right, thats exactly what Im saying. That fetus cant cause a hard enough pull upon the physical world because its own actions have such dismal impact. Therefore, its life is less valuable in the greater spectrum of things than a being after birth and beyond.

[OldSpritz]

[spritz] LOL battle...the crux of this forum is you and I come from a christian belief and morals...Beasty and the

rest come from a non God set of beliefs....just state your belief, dont make it personal and move on..

no big deal...we all make decisions, those decisions build our house... build one you like because they

are a pain in the butt to remodel...

[SmG Battlefire]

This isnt a personal insult. Dude, I have literally no fucking clue what you just said.


EDIT- Ok, I get what your saying now, and your absolutly right, thats exactly what Im saying. That fetus cant cause a hard enough pull upon the physical world because its own actions have such dismal impact. Therefore, its life is less valuable in the greater spectrum of things than a being after birth and beyond.

Less valuable? It is a beginning of life. The biggest thing that can ever happen to someone. It is the biggest thing in life. The birth a new being. Plus when you kill it you have killed something that did no mistakes. It clean from the time of birth. Why? It did nothing but sit there. So why kill it if it's is the most innocent thing?

[Beasty]

Well, its completley understandable spritz. I spent the first 15 years of my life gueniuly believeing in god and being a Roman Catholic. I only became an agnosticist relativley recently.

I truly asked my self deep down, "What do you really believe? Why do you think that a heaven and hell and a god and a devil exists?" and I truthfully answered in the most honest way, if only to myself at first. I realized that I was only believing in these "facts" out of fear. But thats not real belief at all. Rather than ask myself "how can you find a reason to belive?" i asked myself "what reason is their in believing in it?" and I couldn't answer; at that point I realized that that meant I didn't believe, and that was just fine with me, because I couldn't find a reason I should believe.

I guess religion dispositions us towards specific answers. Not much else can be said besides arguing your point of view for the sheer fun of it, even if you know full well you cant get them to understand.

@battle I don't care. I don't care if it made no mistakes. I don't care if its the start of a new life. I don't care if that makes me sound cold. Its the truth; none of that is a relevant point. That arguement is only based on individual perception. To someone that fetus may be the most precious thing in the world, to the next it may seem like a threat to population control as food runs scarce, that childs food could've feed his OWN child had it not been born.

[Sman545]

Personally I am completely neutral over both abortion and gay marriage. It's their life, so why can't they simply decide what they want to do. I see no reason why others have to put in their own input in someone else's life and choices. Either way it does not bother me with whatever happens.
As for the whole killing another human being, do you guys really believe the baby would be happy if it was forced to be kept? It would probably either be unhappy with parents that don't love it, and even if put to abortion it would always have the conscious thought that it was unwanted.
Condoms have a 98% chance of correctly working and birth control has a 99% chance. Sure the odds are small but it is still possible to get pregnant even if you do all you can to do otherwise.
As for rape, I don't really see why one should be forced to keep a baby they were forced to have, it would also bring up memory of the traumatizing actions that occurred. Being put up for adoption would also not be the best choice.
Each year there are over a million abortions in the United States alone (not counting women under 18). In short: overpopulation.
I don't know really whether life would be better if abortions were allowed, or whatever. Probably not seeing how so many children already die each day. All I can say is that being a mother is obviously painful, both emotionally and physically so sometimes to them there is only one option, and to them it feels like their last option. Either way, it's kind of weird the whole impregnation concept. Easily the guy might have pulled out, or used a condom. Would that still not be "taking away life"? Sure the sperm hasn't technically reached the egg and created a zygote, but it's still stopping that flow of life.
Not that it all matters to me anyway, for it is really up to the person, not anyone else.

By the way, i don't really understand why everyone is getting so carried away and philosophical about things. I think religions shouldn't be thought about when thinking of subjects a these since they will probably cause a sort of bias over the whole subject. I also don't see why we need to start talking about the whole world being a piece of shit and all since it doesn't really add to the subject.
Also, if I see any sort of conflict being strung out of this very controversial and problem-leading subject, I'll lock this and maybe do more depending on the issue.

[SmG Battlefire]

Well, its completley understandable spritz. I spent the first 15 years of my life gueniuly believeing in god and being a Roman Catholic. I only became an agnosticist relativley recently.

I truly asked my self deep down, "What do you really believe? Why do you think that a heaven and hell and a god and a devil exists?" and I truthfully answered in the most honest way, if only to myself at first. I realized that I was only believing in these "facts" out of fear. But thats not real belief at all. Rather than ask myself "how can you find a reason to belive?" i asked myself "what reason is their in believing in it?" and I couldn't answer; at that point I realized that that meant I didn't believe, and that was just fine with me, because I couldn't find a reason I should believe.

I guess religion dispositions us towards specific answers. Not much else can be said besides arguing your point of view for the sheer fun of it, even if you know full well you cant fet them to understand.

@battle I don't care. I don't care if it made no mistakes. I don't care if its the start of a new life. I don't care if that makes me sound cold. Its the truth; none of that is a relevant point. That arguement is only based on individual perception. To someone that fetus may be the most precious thing in the world, to the next it may seem like a threat to population control as food runs scarce, that childs food could've feed his OWN child had it not been born.

We have enough food source to take care of a huge population. Look at china.
Also if people say population is increasing we are in big trouble. Well that's just a lie because if it was than we would have that problem already. Or populations is growing faster than those that are growing crops. We would face that problem long time ago.

Plus, colonization to mars :)

But really just killing other human being is just dumb. It makes no sense at all. How can taking ones life good? Life is not small it huge.

[Beasty]

^it was a hypothetical situation first off, secondly there ARE places where children starve in this world battle.

[SmG Battlefire]

They starve because droughts and wars.

It has nothing to do with the population. Look at Africa. The only reason they starve because one, civil war. Two droughts, they can't grow crops and feed the population. And droughts there are natural because it happens during a season.

[OldSpritz]

Well, its completley understandable spritz. I spent the first 15 years of my life gueniuly believeing in god and being a Roman Catholic. I only became an agnosticist relativley recently.

I guess religion dispositions us towards specific answers. Not much else can be said besides arguing your point of view for the sheer fun of it, even if you know full well you cant get them to understand.

Yep....personal decision...lol...But, there are big changes coming in these last days, so i wont

give up hope for you Beasty.. ;)

[spritz]

[Sman545]

I am actually very thrilled to see what will happen once all these changes and things are over. Who knows what will happen there, this might easily trigger something huge or just fade away normally.