[Donut]

hahaha, no, not communism. SOCIALISM (which is what you're talking about) still retained a currency, this doesn't as it's a RBE (resource based economy). The resources themselves are the only commodity, there is no middleman commodity like banknotes.

And to Donut, none of this implies the destruction of economic freedom, only a reduction in it. And how is reducing economic freedom a bad thing? The amount of freedom you have now is in direct correlation to the instability and waste in the current economic model. Wouldn't it make sense to curb a little freedoms in order to ensure a more productive system? It's not as if we don't do that already- you don't have the freedom right now to murder people, but that's not a bad thing. I suppose I could better correlate to the above with a different analogy- for instance, you are not allowed to manufacture drugs and sell them. Neither things have a direct causal harm to any individual, but in the interest of public safety and the functioning of a better system, we don't allow it. Or replace drugs with say high grade military weapons, or the laundering of money, and it's all the same argument.

In any case, I have yet to imply any social or political manifestations, all I've supposed is the economic portion of a new order. So to say that you wouldn't have lateral social mobility or that you would be "an enslaved worker" is ludicrous, especially when you come to understand that there would legitimately be a small amount of real jobs. The majority of jobs would be automated, and with good reason- it's faster, cheaper, frees up human time and would have happened sooner if not for the necessity to repress automation in the private sector in order to make our current out dated economic model work.

It would also make people lazy, stupid, and all around unambitious. They'd be given the necessities for like, nothing. And the whole "Socio-political system" would just hate to alienate anyone, so the world would quickly fill up with a bunch of wellfare-collecting retards who don't care to try and better themselves. IT. WILL. NOT. WORK.

[Beasty]

hahaha, no, not communism. SOCIALISM (which is what you're talking about) still retained a currency, this doesn't as it's a RBE (resource based economy). The resources themselves are the only commodity, there is no middleman commodity like banknotes.

And to Donut, none of this implies the destruction of economic freedom, only a reduction in it. And how is reducing economic freedom a bad thing? The amount of freedom you have now is in direct correlation to the instability and waste in the current economic model. Wouldn't it make sense to curb a little freedoms in order to ensure a more productive system? It's not as if we don't do that already- you don't have the freedom right now to murder people, but that's not a bad thing. I suppose I could better correlate to the above with a different analogy- for instance, you are not allowed to manufacture drugs and sell them. Neither things have a direct causal harm to any individual, but in the interest of public safety and the functioning of a better system, we don't allow it. Or replace drugs with say high grade military weapons, or the laundering of money, and it's all the same argument.

In any case, I have yet to imply any social or political manifestations, all I've supposed is the economic portion of a new order. So to say that you wouldn't have lateral social mobility or that you would be "an enslaved worker" is ludicrous, especially when you come to understand that there would legitimately be a small amount of real jobs. The majority of jobs would be automated, and with good reason- it's faster, cheaper, frees up human time and would have happened sooner if not for the necessity to repress automation in the private sector in order to make our current out dated economic model work.

It would also make people lazy, stupid, and all around unambitious. They'd be given the necessities for like, nothing. And the whole "Socio-political system" would just hate to alienate anyone, so the world would quickly fill up with a bunch of wellfare-collecting retards who don't care to try and better themselves. IT. WILL. NOT. WORK.

That's an excuse. Any sociologist, psychologist, and nueroscientist would tell you there is no such thing as "human nature". You're utterly naive if you think people have no drive other than to acquire wealth, and if that is the case for you then I feel sorry for you.

Repeating that "it will not work" in capitals doesn't make you right. But if you want to keep touting something rejected by anyone with any idea about the human psyche in favor of what bankers and politicians tell you then be my guest. It's just intellectual flailing.

[RockerJ]

hahaha, no, not communism. SOCIALISM (which is what you're talking about) still retained a currency, this doesn't as it's a RBE (resource based economy). The resources themselves are the only commodity, there is no middleman commodity like banknotes.

And to Donut, none of this implies the destruction of economic freedom, only a reduction in it. And how is reducing economic freedom a bad thing? The amount of freedom you have now is in direct correlation to the instability and waste in the current economic model. Wouldn't it make sense to curb a little freedoms in order to ensure a more productive system? It's not as if we don't do that already- you don't have the freedom right now to murder people, but that's not a bad thing. I suppose I could better correlate to the above with a different analogy- for instance, you are not allowed to manufacture drugs and sell them. Neither things have a direct causal harm to any individual, but in the interest of public safety and the functioning of a better system, we don't allow it. Or replace drugs with say high grade military weapons, or the laundering of money, and it's all the same argument.

In any case, I have yet to imply any social or political manifestations, all I've supposed is the economic portion of a new order. So to say that you wouldn't have lateral social mobility or that you would be "an enslaved worker" is ludicrous, especially when you come to understand that there would legitimately be a small amount of real jobs. The majority of jobs would be automated, and with good reason- it's faster, cheaper, frees up human time and would have happened sooner if not for the necessity to repress automation in the private sector in order to make our current out dated economic model work.

It would also make people lazy, stupid, and all around unambitious. They'd be given the necessities for like, nothing. And the whole "Socio-political system" would just hate to alienate anyone, so the world would quickly fill up with a bunch of wellfare-collecting retards who don't care to try and better themselves. IT. WILL. NOT. WORK.

That's an excuse. Any sociologist, psychologist, and nueroscientist would tell you there is no such thing as "human nature". You're utterly naive if you think people have no drive other than to acquire wealth, and if that is the case for you then I feel sorry for you.

Repeating that "it will not work" in capitals doesn't make you right. But if you want to keep touting something rejected by anyone with any idea about the human psyche in favor of what bankers and politicians tell you then be my guest. It's just intellectual flailing.

Humans may not have the natural drive to obtain wealth, but that doesn't change the fact that humans (in a normal state of mind, not some fucked up neckbeard brain) want to survive. Perhaps those who suffer depression, schizophrenia, or are bipolar might consider ending their life, but those are mental debilitations, so they don't reflect in total what the whole of REGULAR human society thinks.

As for reducing economic freedom...What the fuck is wrong with you?
Let me give you a little history lesson, because I think that all those Fs in school kind of are what made you account to nothing.
It is no debate that those who came aboard the Mayflower were Englishmen searching for social and religious freedoms. Please note that I am not mentioning the Jamestown or Columbus settlements because they really didn't amount to anything, they just set the plans in motion for the Pilgrims. So, they come to The New World, and they find that it will be a lot harder to start from scratch. There are hardships, battles with, but also fellowship with the Indians, and eventually, come 1740s, America is a quite successful colony.

why you may ask?

There were a variety of reasons, but one of the biggest was that there were no economic sanctions. John Adams, Samuel Adams, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, even good ol' Benjamin Franklin were doing illegal activity according to Britain's laws, but not for America. They were smugglers. They made moonshine, beer, whiskey, any alcohol you could name they made and smuggled, illegally I might add.

The reason? America was a FREE MARKET ECONOMY. Look it up, not on /pol/ or /b/ either. Sure, Big Brother Britain imposed economic sanctions upon America, but America was quickly outgrowing Mother (fucking) England. Things started, Britain imposed many more economic rules upon the colonial citizens of America, and a war started. The Stamp Act, Quartering Act, and the Tea Act of 1773 made Americans furious because it is "in our nature" to be free.

I know you, the anti-freedom motherfucker of the clan may find my patriotism and love for freedom of all kind offensive, but you have no right to take these freedoms away as garunteed by the U.S Constitution Preamble and Bill of Rights.

So if you want to go live in Marxist Germany, Communist China, Fucking Stupid North Korea, or your own goddamn fucked up nation, you do that, you have the right to, but don't try to even consider taking away my freedoms. I'm a happy American, I love my country (well except for those liberal dumbasses in Washington) and I don't ever want to lose it. It sounds cheesy, but unlike your retarded self, I would die for my country because I know that if people like me unite, we can make it better a better place.

So fuck off with your communist, marxist, socialist, whateverthefuckism you call it, get out of my country, and leave us patriots the hell alone.

[Beasty]

Okay kid, please pick up a history book. I live in the town next to Plymouth MA, don't condescend me about something like the pilgrims. The reason the thirteen colonies survived is because they had good dependency from the British crown lmao. What do you think the Boston Tea Party was? A reactionary riot to an increase in the taxation on imported tea from ENGLAND. The thirteen colonies never had a stronger economy than England, are you insane?

The reason that Britain imposed increased taxations was to help fund their war with the French. They didn't give two shits about "muh freedoms" and shit like that, and in actuality neither did the colonists. Most laypeople in the colonies didn't hate England with some great ferocity, and they didn't care about the separatist movement. The revolution was mainly fought by rich plantation owners who were seeking to retain their own profit, either by demanded seats in government with the taxation; and when that utterly failed, they sought to separate from the empire in a revolutionary war. A war that was primarily fought by mercenaries and funded by France as a means to get an edge over Britain in their own war.

FYI, how about you get the fuck out? You guys said you escaped from from socialist states, right? The ones that were actually implementing not socialism, but what is called state capitalism? My family undoubtably goes back farther here then yours does, so how about you get the fuck out of here then? Everyone has known we needed a severe change in the way things are since the 1920's when your "economic freedom" helped bankers like the Rothschilds instigate an economic panic. After that wasn't enough, they engineered the Great Depression so that they could pressure the US government with their bought out politicians to hand over the rights to the United States currency in the formation of the Federal Reserve.

You don't know shit about any of this freedom stuff, you hear it and get all sentimental inside but you don't know what it means, how it works, or if it may need to be tweaked. You're uneducated in this regard, and I blame education for making you think that because you got A's, you somehow are qualified to converse with someone like me, who hangs out on a forum about this kind of stuff, debating people with PhD's in biology, constitutional law, ect. You're not on my level yet if you hear the word freedom and immediately assume it's good. You're still ignorant. Good, stay that way. Ignorance is bliss. Maybe it's better for you to be happy in your blind ignorance. If you were to see things as they really are, well, it's not fun; and you'd soon give up this "patriotism" act too.

[marshMello]

I've been trying to ignore this thread for days... but you guys are spouting off stuff that you can't even provide evidence for!?
So beasty you really think the Great Depression was engineered? the economic factors of a world collapse had nothing to do with the fact that America could not longer be an independent nation as we had involved ourselves to heavily in other markets (for much longer than "The Great War"). Like you know that nice little period of imperialism the US had at the turn of the 19th Century... our investments in foreign markets and the crash most of the economic powers of the world had after that?

Sure there may have been finagling, but you cannot tell me that the Great Depression of created. The panic sure, but the system was already broken. There were many, many, many factors beyond the control of our banking system and the political leaders.

Also Rocker J I'm not keen on taking a side here. I just want everyone to be talking real shit and not bullshit. So if you have proof about all our historical leaders smuggling, I'd be glad to see it. I mean I wouldn't doubt it, but seriously guys. Keep things real.

Also, let's refrain from telling each other to gtfo. it's just a discussion guys, as much as whatever gets said here may be true or false... I doubt either of you are going to go change something. So state your opinions as per based on facts, and chill out. Getting that heated just gets everyone in a dither :) have fun DISCUSSING NOT DEBATING our country's history and policies.

[SmG Battlefire]

Beasty, your image of communism was the same with the others. But then it became bullshit when it went into action. Communism China in it's early days had your exact image. Guess what happened? They got screwed over because the people there became like slaves. They first started off with the metal industry (Great Leap Forward period) but when the metal they made were useless. The people there didn't even get back what they worked for.

You have to understand that your image was always the same with the other communist counties. And now see where they are at now.