[Beasty]

Just as planned.

[Rebel]

You need to study this stuff more before making a comment like that. There is a reason I have been studying up on him and reading his journals and bios, etc. It's because I see people (a minority it seems) post things like the post you just made about Che. But of course, (being an American and all) I can see how you are blinded to look at him like that. There is a reason he is popular all over the world and I see his face a lot. He believed in fighting for a reason or cause... You obviously hear this fighting for a cause shit a lot but hey... he did help defend Cuba from the American attacks... But oh yea... They are terrorists and psychopaths... All of them... Right? Isn't that what your governments tell you? Oh well it must all be true then...

[Beasty]

You need to study this stuff more before making a comment like that. There is a reason I have been studying up on him and reading his journals and bios, etc. It's because I see people (a minority it seems) post things like the post you just made about Che. But of course, (being an American and all) I can see how you are blinded to look at him like that. There is a reason he is popular all over the world and I see his face a lot. He believed in fighting for a reason or cause... You obviously hear this fighting for a cause shit a lot but hey... he did help defend Cuba from the American attacks... But oh yea... They are terrorists and psychopaths... All of them... Right? Isn't that what your governments tell you? Oh well it must all be true then...

Woah buddy, that is a lot of accusations. He's known all over the world because he is a symbol of youth rebellion- a symbol that was created for marketing purposes. This over simplification of character, the creation of an identity that isn't wholly true, and the subsequent selling of this identity is in reality a byproduct of Capitalism- the very thing he was against. And furthermore, it isn't mutually exclusive to che either, there are thousands of examples from Steve Jobs to Jesus Christ.

In reality Che openly rejected the idea that a vanguard party could be used as a catylst not for starting a state, but for inducing higher social awareness within the proletariat as Marx described. In his own eyes, people can't serve there own interests since they're generally stupid- and while I agree with the latter argument, the former is the very anti-thesis of Socialism and of Marxism in general. Che was not good news for Marxism, he is as much to blame for it's negative reputation as Stalin and Mao are, because his interest was inherently the state, and not the people who comprise it.

Authoritarian and National Socialism have had demonstrably negative impacts on not only the reputation, but of the application of far left political ideologies, and in many cases have done so without regret. A man who executed people for either contributing to or harboring longing for the old system is no one to aspire. If he were truly interested in a practical and benevolent continuation of Marxism than he would have spent more time at the chalkboard and less at the gallows.

If you are looking for someone to aspire then look more towards Marx and Engels, who laid the foundation for Marxist thought when they pioneered dialectical materialism and class warfare as focus points in rationalising the disparity in mankinds current socio-economic conditions. If you're more interested in the execution rather than ideas, then perhaps Lenin and Trotsky are more appropriate characters to examine. But for the love of god, don't be a flaming hipster faggot who waltzes around in their che shirt touting "fuck the system" when they have literally no idea what they would do in the event that they found themselves in the position to initiate social and economic reform at the fundamental level. People like that are even wore than useful idiots- they're hopeless fools mistaken on which side of the road they're walking on.

[Beasty]

And to further clarify Jeff, I'm not mad at you. Quite the opposite.

I think you're on the right track, but you are allowing your own personal biases to keep you in the dark in regards to the reality of the situation. The mere fact that you can appreciate the novelty of a completely revamped (and needed) social order is a positive thing. I am just not convinced you fully understand what it is you are holding onto- you feel it, but you don't see it. You have to cast away your own emotionless biases if you want to make a positive impact, because emotionally driven systems are the very last thing we need in the 21st century and beyond, and Marxism holds that as a core tenant to it's implications. It's not about what feels good or what makes people happy- it's about realizing what kind of system will properly manage mankind and her resources in the most efficient and rational way possible.

I can assert you haven't done so because you still view situational premises in a very narrow and nationalized perspective. The socio-economic circumstances, which should be your main focus if you actually hold Marxism as an ideal, are not much different between Canada and America. In that regard, the idea that somehow such rediculously minute differences between our circumstances can manifest in a supposed superiority on the subject from your end due simply to your birth place is a joke.

All in all, if you truly want to fix this fucked up path you and I are both on not of our own accord, you should spend less time admiring murderers and more time postulating what you would have done differently.

[SmG Battlefire]

Fuuuuuuuuuck..... More reading....

[Beasty]

Reading is good for you. It makes you more intelligent.

The best thing I ever did was join a politics/debate forum, where every post was this long. I don't even tl;dr anymore. I would probably still read your post if it was 5x that length.

[Rebel]

Lol but regardless of our own thoughts and opinions this all went wayyy off course. I need to start a new forum debate.

[SmG Battlefire]

Well reading something that long on a screen makes my eyes tired. I prefer on paper.

[SmG Hawk]

Reading is good for you. It makes you more intelligent.

So if I read every single post that Battlefire has made I will be smart? Then add yours to it and I'll be a genius?

[Beasty]

Maybe not in the sense on factual information, but surely you'd improve your reading comprehension and vocabulary, right?